In this video, Rachel Go chats with Gregory Elfrink, director of marketing at Empire Flippers. Rachel and Greg talk about the details of selling your business in the eCommerce space, timelines to expect, multiples he has seen over 8 years of buying and selling businesses, and what to watch out for on both the buyer and seller side.

Transcript below.

Greg’s background

Rachel Andrea Go: Thank you so much, Greg, for joining me today. Greg is director of marketing from Empire Flippers. And so, to get started, Greg, could you tell me more about your journey in content and how it led you to Empire Flippers?

Greg Elfrink: Yeah, so, I came from a very similar career in marketing. I was originally an oil-filled roughneck in Alaska throwing sacks of chemical for 12 hours a day. I hated it, so I taught myself internet marketing, and one thing led to another where that eventually led to EF. Like, I used to write articles for a bunch of different SEO agencies and big SEO affiliates. Like, nowadays, some of those guys are, like, pretty big gurus in the affiliate and agency space and, like, I wrote their content, because they would source it to an agency who sourced it to another person that sourced it to me, because I’m just the cheapest on the board because I wanted to get clients. But yeah, that eventually led to EF, where I got hired as the blogger and the content manager, and the rest is kind of history from there. We’ve grown pretty significantly since when I first joined.

Rachel Andrea Go: Speaking of when you first joined, I know you’ve been with them for more than eight years now. What are some of the more memorable ways eCommerce acquisitions have evolved in that time?

Greg Elfrink: Yeah, eight years is, like, several lifetimes in the internet marketing space. I feel like Grandpa Empire at this point. But yeah, in terms of, like, where eCommerce has evolved, it’s pretty different today than what it was eight years ago. So, eight years ago, most people were still viewing a lot of this as, like, their side hustles, especially FBA or affiliate, right? Like, “This is, like, my thing [that] I do in addition to my nine-to-five.” So, back then, my job was really just to spread the good news. Like, “Hey, look, you can sell your business.” Like, what? People buy this? Yeah. You know, there was all the naive seller questions you’d get, like, “Why would anyone ever buy this?” You know? Or, on the buy side, like, “No one would ever sell something like this,” right? So, it was a very new industry back then. And it’s still relatively new today, but — like, in comparison to other Industries obviously — but it’s more mature today.

So, back then, it was a lot more lifestyle entrepreneurs we were dealing with, both on the buy and sell side. Now, on the—in the M&A world, it’s a lot more, like, family offices, private equity, search funds, stuff like that. And the entrepreneurs themselves have leveled up and they’ve become a lot more savvy — or, at least, they think they are because sometimes they think they are and they don’t understand, like, the intricacies of the M&A deal. So that’s where I kind of come in, to either kill their dreams a bit on their evaluations so we can get a realistic valuation, or to help them overcome some of these nuances that they don’t understand, which it makes sense that they wouldn’t because, you know, they’ve only ever sold maybe this one business, right? So. But yeah, that’s kind of the difference. The maturity has changed a lot, the price prices, deal structures — all that stuff has kind of changed quite a bit.

Acquisitions are picking up speed

Rachel Andrea Go: And what are some of the trends that you’re seeing in acquisitions today?

Greg Elfrink: Yeah, so, in terms of acquisitions today, it’s bad to be an aggregator. So. Out there to your audience out there who know as aggregators probably got that joke. But yeah, in terms of being a[n] entrepreneur who’s buying businesses, you’re in a much better place than you were a few years ago, because when the aggregators were going hot and heavy on Amazon FBA, you just couldn’t compete. Like, no entrepreneur I know could compete with the multiples being driven up so high by those aggregators. So, right now, it’s kind of a golden age if you’re a non-aggregator buyer who’s just, like, you know, an entrepreneur building out a portfolio, because now you can actually get the deals, right? And that, of course, is the sad part for the sellers, where the valuations have dropped, right? But they’re still pretty good. They’re still better than 2019, so. They’re just not as heated as it was in 2020-2021.

Rachel Andrea Go: And then, speaking of getting those multiples up on the seller and brand owner’s side, what should they be investing in to increase their sale prices?

Greg Elfrink: So, the number one thing you can do is increase your price. So, most of my friends in the entrepreneurial world, they don’t price themselves very well, or they only ever test their pricing once. And in my view, you should be testing your pricing, like, at least twice a year. I know there’s, like, some dynamic pricing tool out there for the FBA space now, but, like, this goes for any business, whether you’re a service business or whatever, right?

Like, I have a friend, he bought a SaaS business from me for about $500,000 and he’s owned it for close to a year, and now that business is worth closer to $1.8 million. And one of the only things he did—well, he did a few things, but none of them were significant in terms of, like, you know, actual work that he had to do. But this SaaS has been around for 20 years. The price has never changed since they launched; it was always the same price. All he did was change it up to 2024 prices, and there was no subscription on it, so he, like, made it a subscription, which is wild to think that people would come in every month to pay for their—pay for this thing. And those two things let it do 1.8-million-dollar business — almost no other changes.

So, in my view, pricing is the biggest leverage you have and is the most, like—it’s the one that no one thinks about. Outside of pricing, the other thing I would recommend (which is a lot harder to do) is, if you can create a DTC eCommerce brand presence, that’s really, really powerful right now, to diversify from Amazon, where Amazon becomes just a marketing channel for you.

Find your premium price

Rachel Andrea Go: I would love to chat a little bit more about the pricing strategies that you’ve seen people implement. What are some of the smart things that you’ve noticed brands have done or aggregators or acquirers have done after purchasing a business?

Greg Elfrink: Sure. So, there’s not, like, a tried-and-true template — at least, none that I know of. But, in general, the way they would look—you would look at your competition, where they’re pricing at. If you’re about the same, then you’re about market rate, and it’s okay to be market rate. Like, I always worry about if you’re the cheapest, because it—cheapest is always a race to the bottom. Like, there’s no benefit of being the second cheapest, like, no one’s going for you, right? So. But there is a lot of benefit for being the premium. So, what I would recommend to test pricing if you don’t want to do it, like, live on the site, you can use something like PickFu and drive a bunch of user-generated traffic to see, like, what people would pay for. And I would try to position your product as the premium price. Like, if your thing sells for $20, and you’re thinking, like, “There’s no way someone would buy it for $30; all my other competition are, like, $22,” well, change your brand positioning.

What can you do within the angles to bring it up to that $30 value? Because, like, you know, Apple, until recently, their laptops were always not as good as Microsoft, but their brand positioning was so good that no one would ever say that, right? The Mac people were fanatical about it. It’s all marketing, it’s positioning. So that’s one thing I would do on pricing.

The other thing I would do is having tiers in your pricing, if possible. This isn’t always possible. But you have one, two, three, so you have the low price, the median price, and high price, and the most money is always made on the medium price, because people will almost always, on average, choose the middle price, because people don’t want to stand out. They’re like, “I don’t want to look cheap. I don’t want to look snobby,” so they usually pick—choose the middle. So, you want to price that middle price to be the most profitable, and you do that by usually clinging that close to the large price, and the medium [small] price, clinging it close to the medium price. So, some people will just upgrade to the large just because it’s, you know, so little difference, but by having the small price being so close to the medium price anyways, they’re like, “I’ll just go with medium.” So, optimize for that middle tier for the most profit.

How to create brand demand on new channels

Rachel Andrea Go: You also mentioned something about building a brand outside of Amazon and having Amazon as just kind of a channel where you make sales, but then creating that brand demand elsewhere. What are a few ways that people can create brand demand in other channels?

Greg Elfrink: Yeah, so, unfortunately, it is pretty hard for an Amazon FBA person to do it. A lot of the aggregators, they actually made this mistake and it’s what led to their deaths for some of them, which was, they bought Amazon FBA businesses thinking that they were going to be able to blow it up with DTC channels and they just could never get it to work. Now, I don’t know if that’s because of the product or because of their own operations; I know they weren’t always the best operators. So, your mileage may vary, right?

But in terms of testing your DTC brand, the first thing would be to get up a store, right? Set up a Shopify store, set up a funnel. It obviously works a little bit different than Amazon, so that’s quite alien if you’re only used to the Amazon ecosystem. In general, it’s harder to convert than Amazon as well, which is another thing that throws a lot of people off. So, one of the first things you need to do is just be okay with failure, because, like, you’re gonna fail. It’s just the natural way of it. What you want to do is, like, can you get anyone to buy anything from your Shopify store with your marketing knowledge, right? That’s the first step. Then you can try to go for break even. Don’t try to think, like, it’s one ad and done like it can be with Amazon at times.

But—so that’s the first thing. Also, think about funnels. So, a lot of Amazon people, they don’t have the upsells, right? The upsells, down sells, cross sells. And that’s very, very important for making ads work where they’re profitable for DTC funnels. So, you know, if you’re selling coffee, upsell the coffee machine, you know, that kind of stuff, right? So, you want to set that up, set up abandoned cart, and also set up all the email workflows for this type of stuff. So, that’s all, like, relatively new. Most Amazon FBA owners don’t have that because they don’t have access to the customer. But that’s also the beautiful thing about you doing this: You work through all those obstacles, you get to own your customer, which is fantastic.

Logistics and other elements to hone

Rachel Andrea Go: You mentioned how you noticed a lot of aggregators are not necessarily the best operators. So it made me curious: How does a brand’s logistics setup translate when they’re being acquired?

Greg Elfrink: Yeah, I mean, it’s huge, I’m sure as you know; this is more your wheelhouse than mine. But yeah, logistics is a big part of the battle. Like, if I’m talking about—with an affiliate marketer, I’m selling their content website — which I sold a lot of those — like, the main thing we’re talking about is SEO and marketing, all that kind of stuff, the affiliate network payout.

But with Amazon FBA, like, the main thing we’re talking about is logistics. It’s pretty central to the whole thing, right? Like, how much inventory do you have on hand? What’s your landed cost COGS? All that kind of stuff. Where’s your 3PL? Do you have a 3PL? Where is their sourcing? Do you have multiple factories? Are all of them in China? Because that’s actually not as diverse as it sounds, because everything in China ships out of Shanghai, so—as we found out. So, I mean like, 10 factories in China doesn’t really matter. So these are all really, really important questions when it comes to selling or buying a business. So, like, to what you guys do, this is also a really complicated thing, like, especially at a large scale where you’re dealing with, like, hundreds of thousands of units, sometimes per little store. Like, you might have hundreds of thousands of units of one SKU and you have, like, 20 SKUs, right?

So this is an extremely important thing, and most people don’t get it right. So, from the buy side, it’s an opportunity, and from the sell side, if you’re able to streamline it, you can often increase your evaluation, because it should — like, once everything’s streamlined — bring down your costs. And so much of the success of, like, Amazon FBA is, like, a victory by a thousand cuts; like, just doing a thousand different things slightly better than everyone else is really how you often win the game. And logistics, I think, is kind of the unsung hero of that.

Rachel Andrea Go: Actually, the reason why I found this so interesting—this part of acquisitions so interesting is because I know that a lot of companies who acquire multiple different brands come to us and ask to consolidate and inherit kind of their warehouses, their processes, etc., under one umbrella. So, have you noticed, often in acquisitions, they also inherit the 3PL relationships, the—and all of those contracts?

Greg Elfrink: Yeah, so, it depends. If it’s an entrepreneur buying and not what I endearingly refer to [as] the financial wizard — they’re, like, the private equity guys — if it’s an entrepreneur buying, usually they’re going to, like, absorb whatever relationships that person has and probably keep it pretty similar — at least for a while, because they want to get their feet wet, kind of learn what’s going on.

In a more private equity situation, I say it’s more 50/50 and it depends on who they’re using. So, if the seller is using, like, a smaller, mom-and-pop 3PL kind of situation, [there’s a] high chance the private equity will not continue using them, very high chance. Like, private equity wants scale and assembly line kind of stuff, so they’ll probably move to someone like you, right? So that would be the things to think about. So, if there’s an entrepreneur buying, they’ll probably keep up the old relationships. Private equity? Higher chance they might change.

Rachel Andrea Go: And then speaking of inheriting contracts and kind of processes and stuff, what are some factors that you recommend bringing over when you acquire a brand? So, like, key personnel, who are those personnel, any software, anything like that?

Greg Elfrink: Yeah, so, this could be tricky. When it comes to the employees, like, a lot of the Amazon FBA businesses — unless they reach a certain level of scale, like, a lot of times, it’s just the entrepreneur and, like, maybe a handful of VA’s, right? So, like, it could be tricky bringing them over because, a lot of times, the VA’s aren’t doing anything super critical. I mean, not always; sometimes they really are. But a lot of times, it’s the entrepreneur doing everything. So, the more important thing, especially if you’re buying a business that’s less than a million dollars — the more important thing is, how do you keep the seller on for a little bit? Like, where they’re on the hook? And the way to do that is with an earn out, like, usually those last between six months to two years depending on the size. And, like, the seller isn’t working for you for two years; usually, it’s, like, the first two months he’s working with you a lot, and then it’s, like, you know, three a.m. emergency email [that says], “Hey, I think that’s something up. Can you help me?”

Yeah, and they’ll get on the phone with you, right? So, that’s usually the way that works. So, I think the—keeping the seller talent is a lot more important, at least for these smaller businesses. For bigger businesses, the thing I would think about is, how deep is the talent bench? Like, if they’re right-hand man is the only guy who can do this, like—we actually just went through this at EF: So, I had a second-in- command; he left, and no one knew HubSpot as well as he does. Like, I’m an idiot with it, but I’m his boss, so I’m like, “Okay. Well, what am I supposed to do?” And so I, like—this is a bad situation, because we need it for everything. So, when you’re looking at buying a business, you want to have that deeper talent bench. If I’d had a deeper talent bench, we wouldn’t have been so stressed out, right? Like, there’s another person ready to step onto that throne, which is not the case for us, so I had to hire new guys. It’s all good now, by the way, it’s all good.

But yeah, so, that’s something I would look at is the talent bunch. In terms of software, that’s easy stuff to switch over. In terms of accounts, that’s relatively easy, whether you’re doing a listing or account takeover. Listing takeover takes forever, by the way, FYI, just so you know. It’s much more preferable to do an account takeover if you’re going to buy or sell a business. But yeah, those are the main things I would consider is, like, how deep is your talent badge? And how do you keep the seller on board?

Traps to avoid when buying a business

Rachel Andrea Go: Those are really good things to look out for. So, other things on the acquisition side, what are a few pitfalls that you don’t want to forget to check for when you’re buying a business?

Greg Elfrink: Dead inventory is one for sure. You don’t want to buy a $600,000 business that has $300,000 of inventory, but $200,000 of it is a SKU that doesn’t sell, right? But like, yeah, yeah, we’re all stocked up — we’ll be stocked up forever because no one’s buying it, right? You don’t want that. So you want to look at the inventory there. You want to look at how are they getting their inventory — so, shipping air, something that you and I talked about briefly offline. But, like, a lot of sellers, they’ll be shipping by air because they’re not very good at forecasting, right? So, the air is, like, fast, reliable, all that stuff, but it’s also really expensive. So, like, seeing that — that’s an opportunity, right? To ship—to do the shipping by ship or by sea, rather. So that’s another thing.

You want to verify their profits, you want to verify what they’re really earning, because FBA and eCommerce in general is capital intensive. So, like, for bigger businesses — like, if you go really big, like 10 million and up — you’d want to get something like a proof of earnings. Now, in our space, we don’t do that as much. It’s not very common at least. But you want to be able to verify the actual revenue, the actual profit, all that kind of good stuff.

The other thing you want to look for is, like, what kind of add-backs are they adding at? Because sometimes sellers go a little bit nuts. So, an add-back, what it is is, like—let’s say I’m an entrepreneur. I’m paying for my phone, it’s on the company’s dime. Then, I go sell my business, so that hundred dollars a month that I’m paying for my phone or whatever, I add it back so it doesn’t count as an expense, thus lowering the valuation of my business, right? So that’s what add-backs are. Because almost every entrepreneur runs so much of their personal stuff through their business, right? It’s like a little tax haven. This is why SBA is actually really hard if you’re going to acquire businesses, by the way, because, like, entrepreneurs do it too much, so they don’t—their tax returns never match up to the value of their business, so the SBA program’s like, “Hey, wait a minute! Something’s wrong here.”

So, like, that’s why SBA often isn’t as easy of a route as you might think to go acquire. But yeah, sometimes someone will get a little bit nuts on the add-backs where they’re, like, adding back their actual marketing campaigns. It’s like, “No. This is an actual cost of you doing business,” right? But yeah. So those are some things to watch out for.

Rachel Andrea Go: So, with all the due diligence, I’m curious: What sort of time frames do you typically see in an acquisition? And what factors affect how long it takes to make a sale?

Greg Elfrink: Yeah, there’s a lot that goes into it. Some of it is just market dynamics, like, in terms of, like, whether the market is fearful or greed. Like, right now, I’d say it’s fearful. During the greedy moments, like 2020-2021, we were selling seven-figure deals every week, like seven days. I think our average to sell a seven-figure business was, like, 19 or 20 days, and we had tons of them. And then a smaller business, sometimes we sold in 10 days.

Now, the market is a lot more cooled off, because everyone’s afraid because of all the mistakes they made when they were greedy, right? So, it’s, like, the great cycle of life. The fear leads them to greed because it makes them make better decisions, and then they start getting greedy again. But yeah, so, nowadays, it’s taking a little closer to three to six months, which, honestly, has always been the case. Like, before the asset bubble that we had a few years ago, it was always pretty much like a three- to six-month timeline. And so we just kind of reverted back to normal as far as I’m concerned on that front.

The number-one mistake I see when people come to me or they tell me, “Hey, Greg, I squeezed all the juice out of profit out of this. It’s now declining. I’m ready to sell.” It’s a little late. I get this so often where people want to list their declining businesses with me, and we do sell them, right? There’s some people that will buy them. But if your goal is to sell as quickly as possible for the highest multiple and the smoothest transaction with the best terms, you don’t want to sell your business at peak profit; you want to sell it a little bit before peak profit. So it’s called the S curve. So, as your business is growing, you sell right here before you reach that peak, which will become a valley and where you have to reposition your company for the next stage of growth. It’s just natural tiers of growth for companies, right?

So, you always want to sell in the S curve, but most entrepreneurs make the mistake of, like, “Oh, no, there’s still more growth for me to get to increase my valuation.” But the thing is, like, your valuation’s going to be higher if you sell in the S curve than you do at the peak, because buyers buy growth. And then, now you also have the scarcity and urgency, like, this is one deal and if you don’t act now, like, literally within a month, it’s going to be more expensive. Like, we update our business prices every single month. We had one buyer, he saw, I think it was, like, a 1.3-million-dollar deal, and over the period of three months, it went up to a 1.6-million-dollar deal because it kept growing and growing. He was like, “Argh, s***!” He’d just finally bought it at the end of three months, like, “I need to get it now before it’s out of my price range!” You know? So, like, it’s so much easier to sell a growing business, but most entrepreneurs make the fatal mistake of deciding to hold on.

And I’ll wrap that off with one guy, he had an eight-million-dollar business. I’ve been trying to convince him to sell for years, like, him and I are really, really good friends, and he knew I’m trying to promote EF, which is true, but I was also giving him really good advice because I know he wasn’t—he didn’t want to continue with the business, like not really, which is always a good time to sell.

So, this is actually a business that was affected by Google SEO quite dramatically — more so than FBA — but that eight-million-dollar business is now worth $200,000, and no one would ever buy it because that fall from grace is so intense, right? Like, he lost, like—would it have been better to not squeeze the juice out and get $8 million, or are you glad you did that and now you can’t even sell it for 200k, right? So that’s, like, my logic on it. So, if you’re an entrepreneur listening to that, that’s a really easy trap for you to fall into. Be careful with it.

Selling a DTC vs. a marketplace business

Rachel Andrea Go: So, it sounds like you—well, I know you work with a lot of different types of businesses, including DTC businesses versus FBA businesses. What are the distinct differences between selling a DTC business versus a marketplace business?

Greg Elfrink: Yeah, so, marketplace, like I said, is a victory by the Thousand Cuts, right? Like, just getting better, minute differences is really how you win. The cool thing about DTC, even though it is harder to get it up and running — which I think should be pretty transparent by what I said earlier — but even though it is harder, like, you own the customer data, which—this is absolutely magical. This is the most important, like, information you can own in a business, and it’s just crazy to me [that] Amazon doesn’t allow you to do that. There’s, like, some workarounds, right, of things you can do, but it’s not very, like, clean or clear if it’s, like, for their terms of service or not.

So you own the customer data, which allows you to do so many different things from both marketing, expansion revenue, selling other services and products, etc. So, basically, what you’re looking at is, like, which one—like, if you put on the buyer cap, which one would I rather buy? This business on Amazon where they don’t own the customer data? Or the successful business on Shopify where not only do they own their own platform through Shopify or Magento or whatever but they also own their own marketing funnels and they have all the customer data?

Like, this one is always going to be more valuable just because of how much safer it is. Like, there’s no—like, if Amazon raises their fees — like they’re doing right now, to the woe of everyone — the Shopify store owner is like — unless Amazon is a channel of theirs, doesn’t really care, right? Like, “Awesome, it doesn’t affect me,” right? So, the Shopify store, once it’s up and running, is a lot more impervious to risk, and when buyers buy, they’ll always more—pay a much bigger premium for what is less risky. So that’s my thoughts there.

Love your business model, not the business

Rachel Andrea Go: I read some of your blogs and I noticed that there was, like, a theme of, you know, “don’t be too attached to your first business” kind of thing. So, my final question is, what is your advice to merchants who have an offer but are unsure about selling their business, especially if it’s their first business?

Greg Elfrink: Yeah, so, I call this “emotional equity,” and pretty much all entrepreneurs have it, but especially on your first one if you’ve never sold that. So, one of the things I would implore the seller to do is to change your mindset about the business. Don’t fall in love with your business; fall in love with the business model, which I think is a lot healthier and allows you to have, like, a, you know, distance from the business. Because what happens is, like, if you’re successful — especially if it’s your first business — this business may allow you to quit your job, travel the world, spend more time at home with your family and friends — like, do some really magical stuff that’s not very common for someone working more of a nine-to-five grind, right? So, like, it makes total sense that you would have an outsized value of what your business is worth because of what it’s done for you, but a buyer is coming at your business with a much colder calculus.

So this is why it can feel like, “Oh, what a d***.” This buyer—this, like, lowball offer. Like, I’ve had sellers get, like, legitimately mad at, like, what is a reasonably good offer because they have so much emotional equity. And so, because of that, they’re never going to meet with the buyer in the middle, right? They’re just too far apart. So this is what I mean by me destroying seller dreams because I have to have this, like, expectation setting to help them to actually sell the business, right? It’s a necessary pain, you could say.

But yeah, so, that’s one thing. Figure out a way to distance yourself. Fall in love with the business model, not the business, because one of the big things you’re gonna do when you’re able to sell this business is you’re going to have all this liquidity, and something that’s very common that I see with my customers, right — I shouldn’t say common, but it’s not uncommon — is they’ll take that liquidity, which is the most amount of money they probably have ever earned in a single, you know, day like, you know—we’ve sent, you know, two, three million dollar wires to people who’ve been grinding away, and this is, like, definitely the most money they’ve ever seen, right? And so they would take part of that to go and buy other businesses and then build them up in the same business model. So, they just buy smaller businesses to what their business was and they already know the path because they just built a business out there, right? So, they’ll just buy a business a little bit earlier on the path but already has a proven market fit and grow that way.

So, these are some things to consider when it comes to you selling your business. And just ask yourself, too, like, put on your buyer cap—like, I did this with a friend recently. So, he has an SEO agency and he wants to sell the business and he was telling me, “Look, I want $1.2 million all cash.” I was like, “Okay, well, you’re not going to get all cash,” like, it’s just too heavy of a price. It was over $500,000; you’re almost always going to get some kind of earnout. It’s just the name of the game. Sometimes, yeah, it could happen, but it’s extremely rare, so you should never expect it.

But then I told him, like, “Would you be open to that?” He was like, “Well, no, because if the buyer buys the business, I’m afraid they’ll destroy all the assets that generates the traffic for me.” He had a bunch of different websites littered across Google that’s getting all this traffic, and it’s like, well, don’t you think the buyer also has that concern? Like, that’s why they want to do the earnout. Like, what if they buy this and it all goes to s***, right? So they’re, like, also thinking about that. So, as a seller selling your first-time business, keep in mind what the buyer’s risk is, because the buyer’s at a lot more risk than you are as the seller. Like, you’re about to get, like, a million dollars; the buyer gets to pay for the possibility of losing a million dollars, so, like, the risk is very different. So, keep this in mind when you are negotiating with the buyer and really treat it like a collaboration. It’ll go much better for you, and you’ll probably get paid more, you’ll get more money up front, probably a better earnout and better or earnout terms in general.

Even though multiples are down, they’re not significantly down. Like, yeah, the fever is over, but this is still, like—so, I’ve been with EF for eight years, right? This is the second best time I’ve ever seen to sell an FBA business. If you look at multiples today versus, like, 2019 — so, before the aggregators, before Covid — like, it’s significantly higher that businesses are being sold at today than it was back then. So, it’s all about relativity, right, with, like, “Oh, everything’s depressed.” But actually, no,  this is, like, the second best time ever to sell and by a significant portion. Like, I think [in] 2019, we were selling things at, like, you know, underneath 2x, right? Now, we’re selling things for over 3x. Like, this is a pretty significant difference. So, it’s still a good time to sell even if you missed the aggregator craze.